Eliot Marshall:

What's up everyone? Welcome to the Blackbelt Business Podcast. I'm your host, Eliot Marshall. And it is my goal with each episode of this podcast to share the stories, strategies, tactics, tools, and resources that will help you establish or grow your martial arts school.

The Blackbelt Business Podcast is brought to you by Easton Online. You can find all of our digital courses, martial arts curriculum and resources designed to help you enhance your business at Easton.Online. Without further ado, let's jump into the episode.

All right guys, what's up? How are you guys?

Michael Phipps:

Doing good.

Eliot Marshall:

Good, good.

Jordan Shipman:

Wonderful.

Eliot Marshall:

We were just talking about coffee for a second, and let's talk about it. Phipps, how much coffee do you drink in a day?

Michael Phipps:

I drink a ton of coffee.

Eliot Marshall:

Yeah. Okay. Give us an example.

Michael Phipps:

Jordan knows how many cups go into a pot. I actually don't know how many cups go into the pot that we have. And it's hard to say, because my wife and I drink from the same pot. So it's like, we have this carafe, but I'm going to make at least two carafes in the day. And that's just coffee, that's not all my caffeine consumption.

Eliot Marshall:

You drink that two carafes of coffee between you and your wife?

Michael Phipps:

No, no.

Eliot Marshall:

You're way more?

Michael Phipps:

Yeah, she's like a cup and a half a day, like a cup.

Eliot Marshall:

So you have two carafes of coffee a day.

Jordan Shipman:

Is it like this size, the carafe?

Michael Phipps:

Yeah.

Jordan Shipman:

Okay. I bet that's about eight cups.

Eliot Marshall:

Yeah. No, seven.

Jordan Shipman:

Oh, it's seven?

Eliot Marshall:

Seven. 

Jordan Shipman:

Well, I was close. Yeah, I was close.

Eliot Marshall:

If she drinks, let's say half of that one, you have just from coffee, 10 and a half cups of coffee.

Michael Phipps:

That seems like a lot. I want to say it's closer to eight, but...

Eliot Marshall:

Well, two of them is 14. She gets four, because she has half of one. So that's 10, dog.

Michael Phipps:

It could be.

Jordan Shipman:

And then you have more caffeine.

Michael Phipps:

Yeah, I have more caffeine.

Eliot Marshall:

When? Doing what? Tea and... Or you'll get a coffee?

Michael Phipps:

It's usually an energy drink, like a healthy energy drink.

Eliot Marshall:

There's no such thing. There's no such thing.

Michael Phipps:

Well, there is. There's energy drinks that are not based in sugar, so it's mostly just caffeine, 110 milligrams to 200 milligrams of caffeine in a drink. And then it's vitamins.

Eliot Marshall:

Hold on. Hold on.

Michael Phipps:

And then it's minerals.

Eliot Marshall:

Pause. Pause here, before we get into real conversation. Okay. This is like diet soda. Diet soda.

Michael Phipps:

It's not like diet soda.

Eliot Marshall:

It's slightly better for you than actual soda.

Michael Phipps:

Correct.

Eliot Marshall:

But it's not healthy.

Michael Phipps:

Correct. It's not diet soda though.

Eliot Marshall:

Okay. Well you know I'm exaggerating, that's all I ever do. Right? So it's not quite that bad, but it's not like... We shouldn't use the word healthy.

Michael Phipps:

I will use the word neutral.

Eliot Marshall:

No. What do you think on this?

Jordan Shipman:

I don't know, it depends on what's in it.

Michael Phipps:

Exactly.

Jordan Shipman:

It depends on what's in it. If it's not got anything in it that's screwing up your biomarkers or-

Eliot Marshall:

It has no coloring.

Jordan Shipman:

... anything like that.

Michael Phipps:

I'm sure there's some color.

Eliot Marshall:

Yeah. So, done. Any red dye number four, over.

Michael Phipps:

I don't think there's red number four. Listen, when I get home I'll pull one out of the fridge. I'll take a photo of the label and we'll talk about it-

Eliot Marshall:

We'll post it on Easton Online.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, yeah.

Eliot Marshall:

Post it on Easton Online so everyone can at least follow up. When this podcast goes out, we'll try to remember to post it.

Michael Phipps:

Yeah, for sure.

Eliot Marshall:

All right, let's go. Man, people have really been enjoying our talks lately, we've been getting really good feedback. Let's stick in the basics. Let's just stick in the basics of, okay, how do you do this? Super simple. Because when the world tells you they like something, you just keep doing that, right?

Jordan Shipman:

Sounds good.

 

Eliot Marshall:

Let's go to your department, Jordan. Basic, dog. Don't get crazy. Where do you start with a basic good kids program?

Jordan Shipman:

Where do you start with a basic good kids program?

Michael Phipps:

I'm about to open an academy. I want to have a good kids program. How do I do it?

Jordan Shipman:

I think that you need to have a curriculum. Ensure you have a curriculum so you're not just flying blind. I think that every kids class should have a training first philosophy. I think the most fun thing for kids when it comes to jiu-jitsu is the ability to play, discover, and explore.

And by prioritizing their training time, and making sure that they get the opportunity to do that, I think is what is going to create the most fun for them.

And if you can plant seeds with the technique, help them learn a little bit so that in that training time they have something to go off of so they can be playful, they can learn, they can explore and have a good time, I think they're going to fall in love with jiu-jitsu. And if they fall in love with jiu-jitsu, then they're going to come back frequently. And if they attend frequently, that is going to build a badass class.

Eliot Marshall:

I want to go-

Michael Phipps:

Curriculum.

Eliot Marshall:

Well, I got this question. We get this question all the time. How do I break down my age groups?

Jordan Shipman:

Got it. We do Little Tigers four to six, Tigers seven to 13, advanced classes are nine to 13. And then after that, the teen program is essentially a transition program where we try and facilitate and guide those teenagers into the adult program.

Eliot Marshall:

Four to six-year-olds, let's start there. How long is that class?

Jordan Shipman:

45 minutes.

Eliot Marshall:

45 minutes. You said... I'm going to sneeze here. Somewhere in between. You said curriculum.

Jordan Shipman:

Yes.

Eliot Marshall:

What type of curriculum does a Little Tigers class look like?

Jordan Shipman:

More and more, I'm actually learning a lot about this age group over the last few months. Because I would say for years that I've been a kids coach, that was the age group that I had the least amount of experience with, and I sought to change that back in December.

And so I've been exclusively teaching that age group for a few months right now, and we're in a comprehensive research and development process with the curriculum. And what I've learned is that throughout the age groups, whether they're four or 24, you're teaching them the same jiu-jitsu, but you may make modifications based on where they are developmentally or experience-wise.

Now, I think that there are some five or six-year-olds who, with enough experience and they're talented enough, precocious enough, to where you could teach them to Berimbolo. But I think on average, in the bell curve, you're probably not going to be teaching that level of jiu-jitsu in your core Little Tigers class.

I would say it looks the same as your fundamental kids curriculum, what you might have for your seven to thirteen-year-olds. But you might make modifications.

For example, we are teaching them to pull guard right now. And we've actually never, ever at Easton taught this age group to pull guard. And so how do you do that? And I've just noticed that at that age grip strength can be a constraint that these kids have.

So grabbing a sleeve grip, for example, when we pull guard, can be difficult for some of the kids. Grabbing the collars, because it's thicker and easier to grip, is not as difficult for those age groups.

You may make modifications like those when you teach different techniques just based on the constraints of that age group. But essentially, the techniques are the same, you're not teaching them different jiu-jitsu.

Eliot Marshall:

Okay. You go, Phipps, you got a question? You leaned forward. No? 

Jordan Shipman:

You look deep in thought.

Eliot Marshall:

Yeah, I just want to get more. I want to give an answer. This is what our curriculum looks like. The class is broken down like this. Like Gracie Games.

Jordan Shipman:

Sure.

Eliot Marshall:

You've checked out Gracie Games, right?

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, I've checked them out.

Eliot Marshall:

What do you think of that style of teaching? You call it Tiger. What is it called? The role and you stay in the mount. It's called something, I can't remember.

Jordan Shipman:

Oh, like the sneaky mount or the spider kid? 

Eliot Marshall:

Yeah, spider kid.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, absolutely.

Eliot Marshall:

Do we like that style of teaching, where it's really play-based and game-based? Like when you're teaching the curriculum, when I was teaching Little Tigers. When they did the mount, they would run over this and jump over that, and duck under this.

And then at the end there would be an instructor there and assistant and they would hold the mount for a minute, or they would pull the guard for a minute, whatever the technique was. Is it that style, or is it more partner stuff? What do you think?

Jordan Shipman:

What do you mean run over here, jump over this, do that?

Eliot Marshall:

I have my mat, and on one end of the mat I've had... Let's say we have, let's go easy numbers, 12 kids in class. I'd have four lines of three. Make sense? I have little obstacle courses set up in front of each line.

And then you, you, you, and you at the end of each line is my instructors, right? And then you would run through this little obstacle course, jump over, duck under, spin around the thing. And then when you get to the instructor you work on, you said guard pull.

Jordan Shipman:

Sure.

Eliot Marshall:

Grab the key, pull the guard.

Jordan Shipman:

I see.

Eliot Marshall:

Push him away, get up in base, run back in line. Now the second you get to the instructor, the other kid starts going, so there's only that one kid standing for a second. So it's super play-based. They're learning this jiu-jitsu, but they are running through a fucking obstacle course in their mind.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, yeah. Totally. Totally. I would say we've evolved away from, we'll just call it an obstacle course methodology. I've seen a lot of that online where there's agility ladders and hula-hoops and slides, and stuff like that. We've moved away from that. Now, in terms of gamifying certain drills to teach them specific techniques, we absolutely use those as part of the curriculum.

Eliot Marshall:

Give me an example.

Jordan Shipman:

What we have been doing the last couple of weeks, actually, we've-

Eliot Marshall:

Just used the guard pull.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, exactly right. What we started with was we actually didn't start by teaching them to get grips and pull guard, we started with guard retention. We made it a game where the kid on bottom, it was their job to get two grips, any two grips they wanted.

And we showed them a variety of grips, because some kids did well with two sleeve grips, some kids did well with sleeve and collar, some well with double lapels.

And then keep two sticky feet on the body, on the belt. And we call them sticky feet. And we make that distinction, because otherwise if you just say keep your feet on the body, they don't quite get it. But when you say sticky feet, they get it. So little things like that.

So we would set a timer and we would just make it a game. And we'd say, "Hey, top person, your job is to move side to side and try and get the sticky feet and the grips off of you without using your hands. You can only just move around. Bottom person, you got to hold on with everything you got."

And you set the timer for about a minute, and you switched top and bottom. And we did that for about a week. And then in week two, then what we did is we started adding in the guard pull, because then they already have this concept of where their hands and feet are supposed to be.

So then when they pull guard, they know that, okay, well, I'm supposed to keep my feet and hands on my partner here. And then the following week we're actually going to pull guard into close guard. So it's a progression through-

Eliot Marshall:

Makes sense.

Jordan Shipman:

Exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

And everything is made into a game.

Jordan Shipman:

Not everything is made into a game, but the whole class is turned into this interactive experience, which I could talk about for a minute.

Eliot Marshall:

Okay.

Jordan Shipman:

Do you want me to walk through that?

Eliot Marshall:

No, I don't. My question is, a warm-up for these kids.

Jordan Shipman:

Yes.

Eliot Marshall:

What does a warm-up look like? What does the class look like? They come in, right. This level kids.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. I'll just walk through the whole thing.

Eliot Marshall:

Walk through the whole thing.

Jordan Shipman:

I'll walk through the whole thing. We line up at the beginning of the class. And what we've started using, is we've started using these polyurethane spots on the mats. So while the kids are lining up and we're amping up the kids, "How are we doing today, Tigers?" "Good, sir!" "How are you?" We might review our four principles in line. We might talk-

Eliot Marshall:

Hold on, what are our four principles?

Jordan Shipman:

Our four principles are focus-

Eliot Marshall:

[inaudible 00:13:25]. What you going to say?

Michael Phipps:

Sorry. I was going to say, that's almost a separate conversation, and we should go through the structure class and then circle back to the four principles.

Eliot Marshall:

This is why you're here.

Jordan Shipman:

Okay, cool. We'll circle back to the four principles.

Michael Phipps:

I don't know anything about coaching kids, that's the only reason why I'm here.

 

Eliot Marshall:

And you set up the beautiful [inaudible 00:13:45].

Jordan Shipman:

Focus, respect, energy, discipline. As we're bowing into class, we usually have one of the assistant coaches get a quick head count and then they lay out the spots in a grid. Then we will call the students out to their spots by rank. I'll say, "Gray belts, go find a spot in the front," because we want the most experienced students in the front of the group.

Eliot Marshall:

Why do we do that?

Jordan Shipman:

And it's a grid-based warm-up. So the kids can see an example of what they're supposed to do.

Eliot Marshall:

Got it.

Jordan Shipman:

Because kids are much more likely to copy what they see rather than what you say.

Eliot Marshall:

Got it. Perfect.

Jordan Shipman:

We put the most experienced students in the front, and then I'll go down the line, gray, "White belts, go find your spots." Four stripe white belts, so on and so forth. The warm-ups that we are running them through is we do bridges side to side, we do hip outs and hip ins, we do our frame escape drill. We do seated break faults. We do up and base.

Eliot Marshall:

Little kids here?

Jordan Shipman:

Uh-huh. Yep. We do seated break falls, and then we do up and base to standing break falls. And then we do our double leg shot drill. It's very similar to the adult warm-up.

Eliot Marshall:

Wow, you guys have... Since I taught this class, like-

Jordan Shipman:

Oh, major evolutions right now. Major evolutions. Excellence, bro. We're chasing excellence.

Eliot Marshall:

I was doing it perfect.

Michael Phipps:

What are you talking about?

Jordan Shipman:

Chasing excellence. Yeah, and-

Michael Phipps:

And they can do it.

Jordan Shipman:

They can do it. It takes some time. When you're starting with a group of kids, they're not going to get that far the first time you run the warmup. The first time you run the warmup, you may spend the whole time teaching them to bridge side to side. But once it becomes part of the culture-

Eliot Marshall:

And you have an assistant instructor there helping them, those newer kids.

Jordan Shipman:

Oh, yeah. We try to maintain a one to four ratio of instructors with Little Tigers. That way you imagine one assistant coach per four children, or two groups.

Eliot Marshall:

So 20 kids, five coaches.

Jordan Shipman:

Exactly. Yeah, you need that. Yeah, they can absolutely do it. And that's the way we look at it is, every level of the kids program, how can we prepare them for the next level?

We want to try and keep the uniform... Not the uniform. The warmup uniform throughout the level so that the Little Tigers are learning the same warmup that the Tigers are doing, it just takes longer.

So when they transition out of Little Tigers into the Tigers program, they have success rather than feeling lost. And that's, I think, really key.

Eliot Marshall:

And the first thing they do when they move up to that new level, the very first class they have, it's going to be this warmup and they're like, they do it-

Jordan Shipman:

They crush it.

Eliot Marshall:

They crush it. And they're like, "Oh, I got it."

Jordan Shipman:

I'm a Big Tiger now, baby.

Eliot Marshall:

I got it.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, exactly. That builds confidence, they're excited. And we can talk about that transition in a minute. After the warmup, what we do is we call them all in and we have them sit in a structure, because it's one of the ways that we teach them physical discipline and focus, is they have to be able to sit still for two minutes. That's it. They're four, so they're not going to be able to focus for longer than two minutes. But we bring them in-

Eliot Marshall:

Should try on my 10-year-old.

Jordan Shipman:

Not longer than two minutes? We bring them in and we teach them a technique. And the way that we've been teaching them a technique is very, very little detail. The most minimal essential details.

Eliot Marshall:

Safety.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. You chunk it down into three to five steps max. And whatever those steps are, need to be something that's easy to call out and have them respond.

If we're teaching them the Americana (we're on week three of teaching the little kids the Americana) we always start by saying the name of the technique out loud. I'll have the instructor come into mount, or side control, whatever position we're teaching it from.

And I'll say, "Side control. Side control." And then I go, "Americana. Americana. 2-1-1, push, push, push, elbow down, under over, tap, push." That's it, right? And as I'm saying these things, I'm demonstrating it step by step. I usually demo the technique twice through like that. And then I do a little pop quiz.

I have the kids walk me through the technique. I say, "Okay, I'm inside control, now what do I do?" And they say all sorts of different things, but a few of the kids are going to get it right. And when they say the right thing, I'm like, "Yes, that's it, 2-1-1. Now what do I do?"

Eliot Marshall:

This is such a huge thing with kids. This is such a huge thing.

Jordan Shipman:

They love it.

Eliot Marshall:

One, they love it. And two, look, I do it with my fighters in the corner. You got one minute, right, Phipps? You got one minute to tell someone what to do. If only you talk, it can be, okay, I'm just going to go out there and fuck somebody up.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. Right.

Eliot Marshall:

Right? So I go, "What do I need you to do?" They don't say it, right, "Okay, I need you to..." Right? And then once they can... As long as they're not too fucked up, right? Once they can repeat it back to me, I'm like, okay, they heard me. Now whether we make that happen or not. And I'm sure just like the kids class, very few of them actually get the Americana on the first go. You're over there with the assistant instructors, and you're helping them and walking them through, but they're going to get it.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. Out of the submissions we've taught them so far, because submissions for this age group is a new introduction to this program, the Americana has been the one they picked up the quickest.

Eliot Marshall:

Well, it's so easy even the Americans can do it.

Jordan Shipman:

Right, exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

That's how it got its name.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, totally. After I have them walk me through the technique, then I have them stand up. And then it's a team effort to partner up all the kids, because just one instructor partnering them up, it takes too long, it disrupts the flow. So all of the coaches, it's a team effort to partner up the kids.

Now, while I am teaching technique, what another one of the assistants does... Remember, I said we had those polyurethane spots on the map. Those spots are all one color, and we use blue ones. We also have a second set of spots that are the same. They're polyurethane spots, but they're orange. What we do is, while I'm teaching technique the assistants are pairing spots, one blue, one orange. And they spread out enough, based on how many students are in class, in a circle around the mat.

The assistants know that when we pair the students together and we send them to their spots where they're supposed to be, the senior student is on the blue spot, the junior student is on the orange spot. Once they're all in pairs on spots around the edge of the mat, the lead instructor walks to the middle of the circle, so that way they can all look in and view the instructor.

And the instructor walks all of the kids through every repetition, they don't drill on their own. What I have seen is when you send this age group out to drill on their own without being guided, it's not very productive.

Eliot Marshall:

Man, this age group, fundamentals.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah.

Eliot Marshall:

We don't even say-

Jordan Shipman:

Even adult fundamentals, right?

Eliot Marshall:

Yeah. In adult fundamentals, we don't show the technique and then say go do it. When we're doing the Americana with adult fundamentals, we go, okay-

Jordan Shipman:

Walking through it first.

Eliot Marshall:

We literally the same way you're walking the kids. We might not make the same funny noises.

Jordan Shipman:

Right, exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

But it's literally the same exact thing.

Jordan Shipman:

Totally.

Eliot Marshall:

All right, so you show them this technique, they practice the technique. You switch them top and bottom.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. And the reason we used the colored spots was this was a recent breakthrough was I always had a hell of a time trying to get the kids to understand who was the senior student. So always trying to get them to, who goes first was a debacle, right?

What I started doing, is I would have them look down at their feet. And I'm like, "If you're on the blue spot, you are the blue tiger. If you're on the orange spot, you're the orange tiger." Then I would just say, "Blue tiger, back, break, fall. Orange tiger, go in the mount."

Eliot Marshall:

That's fucking genius. Because that was one of the worst things. More experienced person lay down, both lay down.

Jordan Shipman:

Right, exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

No one lays down.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, whoever has more stripes. What if we have the same amount of stripes?

Eliot Marshall:

Then they go, "Oh, I got four. What you got?" And then half the time is them counting each other's fucking stripes.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

Right? Like, ah.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. I did this just to keep the flow up, it's been working magically. I walk them through the technique, the assistants are going around and helping. I'm doing the same call and response that I did when I was demoing the technique. They can still see me doing it, so they can look if they get confused.

Eliot Marshall:

You have somebody down and you're doing it too.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, I'm doing it with them. And I might rotate around based on... And I'll keep pace and stuff like that. So whatever techniques we're teaching them, and now we've decided on a formula that we are repeating techniques in Little Tigers for three weeks at a time now.

Because what we have seen is that third week is the sweet spot. That's when the kids really start to nail it. That's when we see them doing Americanas in training and getting taps and getting back up on their feet, and it takes hold.

Eliot Marshall:

All right, how long is this part of the class?

Jordan Shipman:

The warm-up is about 10 minutes, the drilling is about 15 minutes.

Eliot Marshall:

All right, so we're 25 minutes in the class. What's the next minutes?

Jordan Shipman:

Now, at the 25-minute mark, 25 minutes into class we go get some water, then we line up to train. And then we train for 10 to 15 minutes and we do 90 second rounds.

Eliot Marshall:

When's the speech?

Jordan Shipman:

The mat chat is right there at the end of class, about five minutes before the end of class. We tell them to thank their training partners, they fix their belts, they come sit down. We do a two-minute mat chat, then we line up, we do promotions, we close out.

Eliot Marshall:

Got it.

Michael Phipps:

Can you describe the mat chat? Because I don't think that very many people know what you mean when you say mat chat.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. A mat chat is a topic that we want the kids to learn, and these are always evolving. But for example, hygiene is a mat chat. Where we talk about, "what is hygiene?"

Coach Emma made this very succinct, and I love it. "Don't be stinky." That's the way that the kids can understand what hygiene is. Don't be stinky. How can we not be stinky? Oh, we take baths, we brush our teeth, stuff like that. We wash our clothes, we wash our hands. You get a few answers.

We just very briefly, in a way that age group can understand, explain what it is. You try and include as many of them as possible. The answers they give are hilarious. And then that's it. And there's a set of rotating topics.

Eliot Marshall:

I don't stick my finger in my butt.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, exactly. Stuff like that, there's all kinds of good stuff. Manners is always a fun one. The one little kid was just like, "Oh, good manners is not sleeping in your chair at the dinner table."

And I'm like, "Yeah, that makes sense." And then he demonstrates how he sleeps in his chair.

Eliot Marshall:

I think the amazing part about the mat chat, Jordan, is we have them for you.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. No, we have all of them.

Eliot Marshall:

If you want to do the Easton Online thing, at any level, other than I think the onboarding level, like the Hundred Member Boot Camp, this is just stuff you get. And you get all of this stuff. You get all of this stuff laid out for you on the back end, and it's just there.

Jordan Shipman:

Right.

Eliot Marshall:

You don't have to wonder what it is. Phipps, looks like you got something.

Michael Phipps:

Another question about mat chats. That's just for the Little Tigers?

Jordan Shipman:

No, it's for all of the kids in all the programs. It's the same mat chat for Little Tigers as it is for the upper age groups. In our advanced Tigers classes we don't do mat chats, it's more like the adult classes.

Well, in our fundamentals and intermediate classes we have a speech of the week. But once you get to the advanced class, it's really up to the instructor to decide what they're going to talk about at the end of that class. And so same thing with our advanced Tigers.

But for the Little Tigers and the Tigers, so the seven to 13 year olds, fundamentals and intermediate, the mat chat is the same. But the way that you discuss it to 10 year olds is different than the way you discuss it to four year olds.

I'm not going to tell the 10-year-olds, "Hey, don't be stinky." We're actually going to talk about showering after training, and helping mom and dad with laundry, and washing your Gi, and using your mouth guard, washing your mouth guard, and all kinds of things.

Eliot Marshall:

So you tell them to wash their belt?

Jordan Shipman:

I do tell them to wash their belt.

Eliot Marshall:

You wash your belt?

Jordan Shipman:

Let's go.

Michael Phipps:

Where are all my skills now?

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, I know. Look, I'm not going to... I don't wash my belt, but I will always tell the kids to wash their belt.

Eliot Marshall:

Oh, man, I almost butchered it last night in Castle Rock. I was down there teaching. And whenever I have a group of new students I always give my spiel a little bit. And I'm like, "Man, chase your dreams, dog." Chase your dreams, to the whole class, like adults. I'm like, "I don't care how old you are, get really good at something." And I was like, "Don't listen to your parents." I was like, "Oh, shit." And some parents were right there, because there was some 12-year-olds. I was like, "Listen to your parents." I was like, shit. Because I did not listen to my parents, and it worked out for me. And I don't believe in listening to your parents at a certain age. I hope my kids tell me to fuck off.

Jordan Shipman:

What age do you hope that they tell you that?

Eliot Marshall:

When they start to be an adult and they start paying for their own shit, and they're going to go do their thing. Because I'm going to be scared for them in the world. I want them to make sure... I won't, because I've lived that experience.

But my generation parents, it's get a job, be safe, be secure. That's what my parents learned. And I was, "Oh, shit." I was like, "I don't need phone calls. Please, listen to your parents." It went fine, but I was on my way to butchering it.

Jordan Shipman:

Got it. That's funny.

Eliot Marshall:

Anyway, Phipps, you stopped me from asking a question. What was the question you stopped me from asking? We were going down that principle -

Michael Phipps:

Yeah, we talk about this a lot. And so, Jordan, I want you to talk about the four principles, what the acronym is, what they mean, and why they're important.

Jordan Shipman:

Got it. The four principles in our kids program that we talk about all the time, and these are the ones that we hold up on the banner, and these are our expectations. That's another way that we can think about it, is these are the expectations for our students.

It's focus, respect, energy. (Another way to think about energy is effort.) And discipline. We say FRED. For the Little Tigers we might say, "Hey, we got to keep our best friend FRED with us at all times." For ages seven and up, I don't quite talk about it like that, I talk about principles.

Eliot Marshall:

I'm going to stop you for a sec. Because we talk about values too. What's the difference between a value and a principle?

Jordan Shipman:

That's a good question. I think the way that I've heard it expressed before is that-

Eliot Marshall:

I want your opinion too on this.

Jordan Shipman:

... a value is what we're aiming at, it's our north star. And the principles are how we get there.

Michael Phipps:

That's what I was about to say. Beautiful.

Eliot Marshall:

Yeah. I think that's what it is. This is what we're trying to get done, excellence, trust, compassion, stewardship. The way we do that with the kids, is we use FRED.

Jordan Shipman:

Exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

We use FRED. Because the kids have focus if they have... What's our-

Jordan Shipman:

Respect.

Eliot Marshall:

Respect, energy and effort and discipline, we will get to excellence. We will get to stewardship.

Jordan Shipman:

Exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

They will learn how to trust each other, and they will be compassionate to their partners and other people. That was a great explanation. All right, get back into FRED.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. What I always tell the kids is focus is very important in jiu-jitsu. You cannot do jiu-jitsu without focus. And that principle applies to a lot of different things. We have to be focused when we're learning jiu-jitsu, otherwise we're not going to absorb the technique.

We have to be focused when we're drilling, otherwise we're not going to get better at the technique. We have to be focused during training rounds, because we have to make sure that we're paying attention to what our partner is doing so we can defend ourselves.

We need to focus and make sure that we see opportunities to do jiu-jitsu. We need to focus so we pay attention to our surroundings and our space, and make sure we're not bumping into our training partners.

And that's important that we get good at that. Because if we ever get into a self-defense situation, having these different layers of focus are going to be really important for self-defense.

Eliot Marshall:

So you break, then, each one of these principles down into different ways that they have to use these principles.

Jordan Shipman:

Absolutely.

Eliot Marshall:

Respect after energy. I don't think we've got to go through all of them, but that's what we do. And depending on the age level you-

Jordan Shipman:

You speak about it differently.

Eliot Marshall:

You speak about it differently.

Jordan Shipman:

The Little Tigers, when I talk about focus, we say, "How do we focus? With our eyes and our ears."

And I tell them, "Hey, the one way we can focus with our eyes is you turn your eyes into lasers. I want you to turn your lasers on me and try and burn a hole in my head."

And all the kids start staring so hard. It works really well, but I don't say that to eight-year-olds.

Eliot Marshall:

That doesn't quite cut it with a 12-year-old.

Jordan Shipman:

Well, no, they just think it's stupid.

Eliot Marshall:

I have one more question on this kids program thing. I'm going to move on a little bit.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, no problem.

Eliot Marshall:

And I'm sure the structure of how we teach every class, we have all that, this class and that class. But it's super important to, before I move on, to have that structure down. I will do this for this many minutes, and I will do this for this many minutes. Right?

Jordan Shipman:

Yes.

Eliot Marshall:

If you don't have these basic things, you're going to teach a really shitty kids class, and it's going to be chaos. And then your assistants can't help you. The question that I have now, when we move up to this next age group, seven to 13, that's a big gap.

Jordan Shipman:

It is.

Eliot Marshall:

It's a big gap. Do they all work together, or do we split them on the same mat, let's say? Let's say this is the mat, this table's the mat, they all line up together and all of that. This is what we used to do it when... Again, just when I was doing it. God, I sound so fucking old.

Jordan Shipman:

That dramatic pause after you said that, that was good.

Eliot Marshall:

It was good for Phipps.

Jordan Shipman:

Oh, yeah. You know what I mean. Sorry you're old.

Eliot Marshall:

We're so much better than you now. Okay, we'd start the class, we'd all warm up together.

Jordan Shipman:

Yes.

Eliot Marshall:

Boom, line down the middle like a rope almost. Seven to nine over there, 10 to 12 over here.

Jordan Shipman:

We don't split by age. What we do, is we pair them up appropriately. Now, in general, if you are pairing students... Let me just back up for a second.

When we run the class, we don't split them up by age, we split them up by rank for teaching technique. The white belts learn, regardless of their age or size, they all learn the same technique. The gray, white belts and up, regardless of their age or size, they all learn the same technique.

Now, their drilling partner is someone who is relatively their size, which in general is relatively their age. Right?

Eliot Marshall:

Begs the question, what happens when you get a... You pair everyone up, you got a seven-year-old and a 12-year-old.

Jordan Shipman:

You do the best you can.

Eliot Marshall:

Give them help. What do you do?

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, you do the best you can.

Eliot Marshall:

You make a group of three, or do you put the seven and the 12-year-old together?

Jordan Shipman:

Well, it just depends on what's available at the time.

Eliot Marshall:

You have a seven-year-old that looks like Nash when he was seven, who's smaller. Sorry, Amal. And you have a 12-year-old that looked like Kanan when he was 12, bigger.

Jordan Shipman:

Right. And that's all you have?

Eliot Marshall:

Well, that's what you have left.

Jordan Shipman:

Oh, that's what you have left.

Eliot Marshall:

Everyone's paired up.

Jordan Shipman:

Okay, okay.

Eliot Marshall:

And you have this little seven-year-old-

Jordan Shipman:

Well, if I have the little seven-year-old and I have a group of two that are closer to their size, I'm going to put that seven-year-old in a group of three.

Eliot Marshall:

You are not going to go-

Jordan Shipman:

No, no, no. Now, if I have a class of four, and that's all I'm left with, I'm a brand new academy, then you do the best you can. But I will put students in a group of three closer to their size before I put the mismatch together.

Eliot Marshall:

That was my question.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Eliot Marshall:

Got it.

Jordan Shipman:

And then for training rounds, we split by size. It depends on the size of the class. If you've got 50 kids in class, you might have four different size groups, small, medium, large, and super size is what we call them.

If you have 20 kids in class, it might just be two groups, it might be smallers and largers. Within those size groups you get all skill levels. And relatively the same age, but you'll get some different sizes in there.

But I think it's important that the kids get to train with a mix of skill levels just like adults. Because the more experienced students, their higher level jiu-jitsu will percolate down to the lower ranks, and that will raise the base level.

The less experienced students will get to train with the more experienced students, and they will learn from them and they will get a model of what jiu-jitsu can be.

Just like adults. If three striped white belts only ever trained with other white belts, they would suck. They need to be able to train with higher belts. And then there's a-

Eliot Marshall:

This is why I sucked for a long time.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. Well, there's a match that-

Eliot Marshall:

This is why jiu-jitsu sucked for a long time.

Jordan Shipman:

There's a mat chat that I give all the time to the kids, and I think this is really important to build culture. And I say, "It takes three people to be the best you can be. You need someone who can teach you, you need someone who can challenge you, and you need someone you can teach." You need all three of those things. And so when you have all three of the skill levels-

Eliot Marshall:

... instead of saying beat you, you said teach you.

Jordan Shipman:

It's the same thing. But, yes.

Eliot Marshall:

It's the same fucking thing. Yeah, yeah, that was great, especially for kids. And if you change beat into teach, just that was amazing.

Jordan Shipman:

Right.

Eliot Marshall:

Yeah. Y'all better than me. Fuck.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. We talk about that all the time. And sometimes before we train, I will pre-frame the training with that, especially if we have new students in class. Because that's something to consider, is when you have a first day student in a kid's class and you throw them into training on the first day, they don't know shit.

And so you need a culture to where those experienced kids aren't looking at that brand new student as an opportunity to show off or beat the piss out of them and show them how good they are and be a bully.

They need to see that as an opportunity to teach. So it is, it is a directive. It is an imperative that if you are a gray belt and you are partnered with a first day student, they better be tapping you.

Eliot Marshall:

Or mounting you -

Jordan Shipman:

Right. They better be tapping you. They better be taking you down. So sometimes when we have first day students, I give them that speech and I remind them, "Hey, being a black belt partner is helping your partner become a black belt. And part of that is recognizing, who are you in that round?"

Eliot Marshall:

That's a great.

Jordan Shipman:

Right? Is it two yellow belts who have been training together for years? Okay, I want to see y'all go to war. I want to see a death match. Are you a yellow belt with a first day student? I better see you teaching that student the entire time.

Eliot Marshall:

And that teaching can change. Because if you get a yellow belt with a gray belt, the yellow belt's allowed to beat him a little bit now.

Jordan Shipman:

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Eliot Marshall:

He's allowed to start putting it on him, because the teaching is different.

Jordan Shipman:

It is.

Eliot Marshall:

But if you're a yellow belt with a white belt, the teaching is not like... Okay, how we used to do it, I'm going to fuck you up to show you how great this is. That's not what it is anymore.

Jordan Shipman:

No.

Eliot Marshall:

We know that kept jiu-jitsu so small.

Jordan Shipman:

It's just demoralizes people.

Eliot Marshall:

That idea kept jiu-jitsu so small, and now we have to do it differently, and especially with the kids. Man, if y'all don't take anything away from this podcast, nothing, take those words.

Train with people that can beat you, train with people that can push you, and train with people that you can beat to teach you. I guess can keep push you.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, challenge you.

Eliot Marshall:

Challenge you. "Teach you"...to "you teach." Those are the terms that you should be using with your kids class. Next season's online meeting we're going to talk about this for a second. That was great, Jordan, I appreciate it.

Jordan Shipman:

Awesome.

Eliot Marshall:

Phipps, any input here? Anything to add? How long have we been going?

Michael Phipps:

37 minutes. I don't have too much to add, the kids are really outside of my wheelhouse. But there's a few things that I've noticed from working really closely with Jordan for a bunch of years, and also observing the kids Muay Thai program at Longmont.

And the first one is that I love the way Jordan puts this, is that as an instructor you are putting on... What do you say, it's two shows?

Jordan Shipman:

Oh, yeah. Well, really it's one show, but you have to play to the back of the house.

In my theater experience, we always used to have the director who would go and sit in the back of the theater. And somewhere in the middle of the rehearsal process would just start yelling at you in the middle and be like, "I can't hear you!"

And then afterwards he would be like, "Look, the guy's in the back row pay just as much for their ticket as the people in the front row. You need to speak up so the people in the back can hear you."

And the way I like to think about it in the kids class is, it's the people in the back row of a kids class that bought the tickets. Nobody in the front row bought the tickets for the kids class. Right?

Eliot Marshall:

When you say back, you're talking about-

Jordan Shipman:

I'm talking about the parents.

Eliot Marshall:

Yes.

Jordan Shipman:

Right? Because I think a good kids class, I think the best kids instructors don't just teach a class, they make it an experience. They make it an inclusive experience.

Eliot Marshall:

I'm not letting you stop with the kids class.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, it's all-

Eliot Marshall:

Every class.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

Go ahead.

Jordan Shipman:

I'm just speaking within my purview here. But yeah, I think the best instructors make it an experience. And I think that if you can make it an inclusive experience for the parents to where it's fun for them to be in the room.

I consider it a personal failure of mine if I look around the room when I'm teaching or running class and all of the parents are on their phone.

Eliot Marshall:

Or talking to each other.

Jordan Shipman:

Or talking to each other. Why am I so boring that the parents don't want to pay attention to what we're doing? Why is the class so boring? Why are they not training hard in it? Look, man, when kids are training hard, you don't want to take your eyes off of them. Man, it's better than a UFC card sometimes.

I will pump the kids up and say, "I just bought tickets for this match," and then I make a game out of it. I just keep raising the ticket prices the harder they train. I'm like, "We're up to $500." I don't actually pay them money, but they think it's hilarious.

But yeah, I think that when you are teaching, remembering that you're not just teaching to the kids who are a few feet away from you, that you want to make it an experience that includes the parents who are sitting in the back of the house. Play to the back of the house is the way I like to say it.

Eliot Marshall:

This is the hardest thing for people in their kids program, is the child is not the client.

Michael Phipps:

Correct.

Jordan Shipman:

Right.

Eliot Marshall:

The child is not the client. If the client, the mom and dad, gets sick of this thing here. Not sick of, hold on. As long as their kid wants to come, they'll bring them. They'll bring them. If you don't address the parent, if you don't play to the back of the house, the parent. If you don't talk to parent in your kids program, all of them. If you don't communicate with them, if you don't have regular interaction. "Mr. Phipps, how are you doing today? How's your day?"

Michael Phipps:

Wonderful.

Eliot Marshall:

"Awesome. You guys just went on vacation, right? Where'd you guys go again?"

Michael Phipps:

We went to Barbados.

Eliot Marshall:

"You went to Barbados." Let's go to Barbados. "I've never been to Barbados. What's Barbados..." If you don't do this, the second his son Jordan wants to quit, they're out.

Michael Phipps:

For sure.

Eliot Marshall:

They're gone. They're gone. And every single child that walks through your door is going to want to quit. I don't care how good they are, they are going to come to a point where they want to quit. And it's going to be on Mr. Phipps to tell his son, Jordan, that we're not quitting.

Michael Phipps:

Absolutely.

Eliot Marshall:

And if you don't have the parent, they're gone.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah. Correct. No, I think you bring up an important point. After every kids class what we try to do, and what I always do, is as I stand by the door and I say goodbye to every kid and parent as they leave after every class.

And I do not leave my post until all of the kids are gone. And sometimes that takes about 15 minutes. And what I do is, on their way out I praise every kid.

Eliot Marshall:

And I pay you more for this, right? We pay you more for this?

Jordan Shipman:

I don't know if anybody pays me. Oh, do we pay instructors for this? Well, so when we pay our instructors-

Eliot Marshall:

No, you personally. You get paid more for this?

Jordan Shipman:

No, I don't get paid more.

Eliot Marshall:

No. No one gets paid more for this.

Jordan Shipman:

Okay, got it. This is what you're getting at.

Eliot Marshall:

This is part of the job.

Jordan Shipman:

No, this part of the job.

Eliot Marshall:

This is part of the job.

Jordan Shipman:

This is part of our expectations, and it's factored in when we're calculating our compensation.

Eliot Marshall:

And the reason that it's part of the job, and we've been trying to stay away from this, but we're going to tie it back to this, and this is why these are so fucking important. Is because excellence.

Jordan Shipman:

Oh, yeah.

Eliot Marshall:

Excellence. Right? Excellence, stewardship, trust, compassion, those four things, that's why it's part of the job. And if you don't want to do it, it's totally cool.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah.

Eliot Marshall:

Totally fine.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, it's totally fine.

Eliot Marshall:

You can train with us, you can do whatever you want. You just can't come work with us.

Jordan Shipman:

Right.

Eliot Marshall:

Right? You can't come work with us because that is just not what we do. That's not part of the product.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, absolutely.

Eliot Marshall:

Because you have to care more about the kids' experience than you do what you're getting paid for. And then when you do that, it's a really weird thing, you actually just get paid more.

Jordan Shipman:

Yep.

Eliot Marshall:

That's the weird part. That's what we all, as instructors, as everyone have to get through our heads, as gym owners. It's the reason we don't do contracts. I don't need to damand... And we go over this all the time, but so many people listening are still doing contracts.

You don't need one. You really, really don't need one. Because if you stand in front of the door and you say goodbye to every single kid student and kid's parent, and the uncle that you've never met before who just brought them today, you're just going to have people keep coming.

Jordan Shipman:

Exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

And then you will get paid more.

Jordan Shipman:

Right.

Eliot Marshall:

Just try the other way first, is what I'm saying. As a business owner.

Jordan Shipman:

And you will always, if there's ever any kid who is struggling with anything, you're going to find out as you say bye. Because it may be a kid that was like... I'll use an example the other day. There's this small girl who, she's a savage, but she's a little bit small for her age. Gets stuck in the bottom of mount.

So on the way out I'm like, "Yo, hey, did you have fun today? How was class?" And then the dad says, "Oh, well, you know what, I think she was a little overwhelmed because she was getting stuck in the bottom of mount and her arms were getting pinched," and stuff like that.

Eliot Marshall:

And you can see it on their face.

Jordan Shipman:

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so then I'm like, "Oh, well, do you have a minute? Let's go on the mats. We're going to work about what to do in the bottom of mount."

Eliot Marshall:

And again, you got paid more for this, right?

Jordan Shipman:

No, I didn't get paid more for this. This is part of the job, man. Loving the kids with everything you got is part of the job. And if you don't want to love the kids with everything you got, then get off my mat.

Eliot Marshall:

Get off the mat.

Jordan Shipman:

So I pull them aside and then it's like, "Okay, well, here's what we're going to do. We're really going to focus on keeping our elbows in and we're going to use our hips and we're going to do this."

And then after you give them those tools, their face, it completely changes. And then the next day you see them in class, you check in. "How did it go in the bottom of mount?"

Eliot Marshall:

Phipps, you want to say something?

Michael Phipps:

Yeah. Well, I think a couple things. Number one, that applies not just to the kids. I see adults program. If you're an adults coach, you have to care about them more than what you're getting paid.

And then you will get paid more because more adults will come in, the school will be successful. So two audiences or playing to the back of the house, that's one thing that Jordan always says. And if you ever see one of Jordan's classes and you're a new instructor, you might be a little intimidated, because it's a show.

Jordan Shipman:

It's intense.

Michael Phipps:

It's a freaking show-

Eliot Marshall:

Yeah, it's intense.

Michael Phipps:

... when Jordan's in the academy. There's 60 kids on the mat and Jordan's on the stage, and it's amazing. 

I think some other things I've seen in the kids program is, and Jordan does this when he puts on the show, if you are the coach, you have to be enthusiastic, you have to have energy. Because if you don't have energy, if you're like, "Oh, all right guys-

Eliot Marshall:

You have That Friend.

Michael Phipps:

... Bring it in." Exactly. "Bring it in. We're going to look at the mount." It's like, the kids will not pay attention to you. They have to feel excited, and that comes from the energy that you project.

And so energy is super important for a kids coach, as well as the structure of class. If your transitions are sloppy, you will lose your kids. You will lose your kids, and it'll be very hard to bring them back in. The energy, especially in the transitions, has to be even higher.

Eliot Marshall:

When you say transitions, we're saying from technique to training.

Michael Phipps:

Exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

From warm up to technique, from this to mat chat. The transitions need to be smooth.

Michael Phipps:

Going off the mat to getting a drink, getting back on, partnering up. Every little piece, it cannot be sloppy -

Eliot Marshall:

This comes a lot down to your assistant instructors

Jordan Shipman:

Comes a lot down to the assistant instructors. It's choreography. In the theater world we would call this blocking, where it's like everybody knows exactly where they're supposed to be at every point in the play, and the class is no different.

The assistants have to know where they're supposed to be. I have a Google slide deck that's available to our Easton Online clients like that illustrates the choreography of how the class works.

But what you do is you choreograph the class. You have a meeting in your monthly meeting that you have with your kids team, that they're required to be at, which is part of the job. No, they don't get paid more. It's part of the job. This is the time-

Eliot Marshall:

I just rip people off. Me and you baby, we rip people off.

Jordan Shipman:

But this is how the holistic process works. In that meeting you show them the choreography, and then they're all on the same page about where they are supposed to be and what they're supposed to do.

And it's part of your onboarding process. You share this with them when they become part of the team, and then they learn what to do so that the kids then know what to do. And once this becomes part of the culture, it's seamless. It runs itself. It's a beautiful thing to see.

Eliot Marshall:

When I watched it, it was amazing. It was great to see. Guys, let's rap here. This was a great podcast.

Michael Phipps:

That was fun.

Eliot Marshall:

It's super informational. We'll go Muay Thai next. Okay? So that we can talk there. And-

Michael Phipps:

Next time Jordan will have to sit quietly in the corner.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, no. Sorry about that. He kept asking me questions.

Eliot Marshall:

It's just the way it worked out.

Michael Phipps:

No, this is great. This is what people needed. It is just information.

Eliot Marshall:

It was just the way it worked out. And I just want to say, that last thing that you said, if you don't love the kid... What was it?

Jordan Shipman:

Man, if you're not loving the kids with everything you got, then get off the mat.

Eliot Marshall:

Get off the mat.

Jordan Shipman:

Don't even-

Eliot Marshall:

Get off the mat.

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah.

Eliot Marshall:

And that goes for every class.

Jordan Shipman:

Yes. Right.

Eliot Marshall:

If you don't love what you are doing more than you love the money that comes with it, get off the mat. Please don't do that to our industry, because you're ruining it.

You're absolutely... I don't care if you teach like John Danaher or not, if you're that skilled. I don't care if you never produce a world ch... Man, that so doesn't fucking matter. Not even a little bit. Again, it's like if you do love it more than you care about these other materialistic things, you're going to get those. You're just going to get those. It comes.

I'm not that good of a teacher. I'm good, but I'm not like this rock star. I'm good. Amal's good. We have multiple world champions at multiple different belts, at multiple different ages. The people will walk through the door, and that's it. And then you get them. And it's not really you, it's them.

Michael Phipps:

One thing I'd like to say before we wrap up, and I enjoyed this conversation even though it was mostly listening for me, is Eliot -- you taught kids for a long time, karate, and then that's how you got started at Easton.

And every time Jordan would say, "Now we do this, now..." And you're like, "Oh, wow." You do not have to be perfect on day one. Your program will iterate, it will grow. Just get started and implement some of these principles, and get better as you go.

Eliot Marshall:

We'll do this podcast again of how we teach kids classes in three years. And Jordan's going to be like, "Man, we did it so bad."

Jordan Shipman:

Yeah, exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

That's what you're supposed to do. That's what you're supposed to do. Look, what I was doing, it was the best information around.

Michael Phipps:

Exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

It was the absolute best information around at the time. Okay, let me be super clear when I was saying, oh... I'm not sad, I'm stoked.

Michael Phipps:

Exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

I'm stoked. Because I remember when you started following me up in Boulder, and now you are the one teaching me. Right? That's the job of a teacher.

Jordan Shipman:

Correct.

Eliot Marshall:

I'm not supposed to stay better than you.

Michael Phipps:

Exactly.

Eliot Marshall:

I haven't taught the kids class in seven years. No, I don't stay better than you. It's your job. That's it. Yeah, great job, guys. That was fun.

Reach out. If you're under 100 members. If you listen to this podcast and you're under 100 members, we've got an offer for you that you just... It's so stupidly good and cheap that... Just do it and you'll quadruple your money.

100 Member Boot Camp, we'll get you to 100 members in three months. And there you go. It's 500 bucks. It's not even a sale. We don't even need Kyle for this, but we have Kyle for this. The offer's so damn good, you get everything.

You get our marketing, you get our fundamentals curriculum with that. Yes. You get two meetings with Kyle or Derek, and that alone is 500 bucks. So, what are you waiting for?

And then hopefully, we're really hoping by the time that this podcast launches, Phipps is going to get mad at me for this, that we are going to have our new curriculum launched and ready to go for you to take you through. See, I told you he's going to get mad at me. But we're going to do it, we're getting it done. We will have it ready.

Jordan Shipman:

I like how he just checked his phone to see what day it is.

Eliot Marshall:

-send that shit in.

Jordan Shipman:

He's like, is this podcast releasing next week? Because, uh...

Eliot Marshall:

Is it releasing next week?

Michael Phipps:

11 days from now, and I think the curriculum should be launched.

Eliot Marshall:

The curriculum shouldn't be done let [inaudible 00:53:11]-

Jordan Shipman:

It should be locked.

Michael Phipps:

Hey. Let's go.

Eliot Marshall:

We got this, let's go fellas. That's a wrap. Tell me your Instagram.

Michael Phipps:

Mikeymike_phipps.

Eliot Marshall:

Jordan's @easton_online.

Jordan Shipman:

Okay. Yeah, whatever.

Eliot Marshall:

And I am @firemarshall205. So any one of those three, you'll be able to get an answer from us. We'll get you pointed in the right direction for that 100 Member Boot Camp for that affiliate curriculum. Whatever it is you want.

That affiliate curriculum is pretty cheap too, $199 a month for one member. And you get all the stuff that Jordan just said was on the back end of kids program. Well, that's on the back end for jiu-jitsu. That's on the back end for Muay Thai. That's on the back end for your front desk. That's on the back end for your marketing.

We give you all of that. $199 a month a member. If you can't get one extra member a month because of that, it's a you problem, not a we problem. We're out.